If you criticise Israel...

Sounds like Isreal can't be critisized then, based on the chain of consequences of what that means?

Isreal's critisizm sounds like a very touchy subject! But, I don't blame Israel for being hyper-sensitive? If Israel wasn't this hyper-sensitive or touchy, then would Israel even exist?

I believe Israel has a right to exist, even though Israel isn't a sin-less Nation.

But, Looking forward though, making peace should be on mutually benefical terms.

Is peace possible with Hamas? I don't think Hamas's "credit score" of "trustworthiness" is that good. But, when they sue for peace, crying mercy, How much vengence should Israel show instead?

There comes a point when Wars shouldn't be expanded; I think, not because Israel with the United States can't win them, but because Peace is the right thing to do.

You can criticize Israel without being an anti-Semite.

But if you seek to deny Israel the right to defend itself against a terrorist organization with the stated goal of genocide all Israelis then you are an anti-Semite.

@ed01106 said in #3:
> You can criticize Israel without being an anti-Semite.
Thanks
> But if you seek to deny Israel the right to defend itself against a terrorist organization with the stated goal of genocide all Israelis then you are an anti-Semite.
Explain to me, how does an offender defend himself from self defence
Explain to me the self defense from self defense concept please

@ed01106 said in #3:
> But if you seek to deny Israel the right to defend itself

Do you think self-defense is the correct framing for a conflict where Israel has killed some ten thousand children and completely demolished any and all civilian infrastructure while actively talking about how there are "no innocent civilians" and building plans to exile all Palestinians to a foreign country?

Was it also self-defense when Israel responded to the unarmed 2018 March of Return with sniper fire, killing hundreds and injuring tens of thousands?

Frankly, I'm most curious what you think the result of this self-defense should be. How many children must Israel kill in the name of self-defense before you ask yourself, "Dang, this is kinda fucked up"?

@four_legs_good said in #1:
> ... then you want Israel destroyed.
>
> If you want Israel destroyed, then you are an antisemite.
>
> If you are an antisemite then you are a nazi.
>
> If you are a nazi, then it is morally justified not only to kill you, but to kill all your neighbourhood in the process as "collateral damages".
>
> Credit to @Raspberry_yoghurt for this brilliant chain of non-sequiturs.

Try reading what I write instead of ... whatever it is you do.

My logic is like this:

If you want Israel destroyed and blame the jews of the entire world for Israel's wrongdoings, then you are an anti-semite.

Since nazis were like the number one anti-semite movement in my part of the world, I'll call you a nazi as well.

> If you are a nazi, then it is morally justified not only to kill you, but to kill all your neighbourhood in the process as "collateral damages".

K now you're just STRAIGHT UP LYING about what I write. Why do you do that?

It's odd why you'd want to do that.

@four_legs_good said in #6:
> Obviously pretending that a murderous terror organisation are freedom fighters only doing self-defense isn't much better.

I'm with you on this count. The October 7th attack was a gruesome and indefensible act.

> At some point, one must realise being the oppressed for decades doesn't grant you the right to reply in any immoral way you want.

I agree. At the same time, knowing what I do about human psychology, I find it very hard to pass judgment here. Being brutally and violently oppressed for decades messes with your head.

Just some background context - before the start of the 2023 ethnic cleansing, roughly 25% of middle-schoolers in Gaza reported suicidal ideation and/or planning. 80% of minors suffered from depression. 37% of adults and 50% of children suffered from PTSD. These are people who have lived their entire lives under the Israeli blockade, and who have suffered through multiple wars and bombing campaigns; children who have suffered through the Israeli-imposed "Gaza diets" and the resulting malnutrition; children whose entire lives have been defined by the violence visited upon them by Israel.

Is it any wonder, then, that given the opportunity, they respond in kind? Is it any wonder that they act in inhuman ways when they've spent their whole lives being dehumanized? Is it any wonder that they chose violence when attempts at non-violence were met with brutal suppression and did not change anything? If you were in that position, do you think you would act differently?

I'm not going to say that October 7th is justifiable. What I will say is that it was inevitable. Situations like the one in Gaza are simple not tenable in the long-term. Eventually, something will give. The oppressed will eventually either die out or become ungovernable and violent, and when that happens, the apartheid regime has a choice to make - make concessions towards the oppressed and reform society, or make the oppressed go away through ethnic cleansing and genocide. Hamas forced the issue, and Israel chose the second path. Usually, that's the point where the international community steps in; sadly, that hasn't happened here.

@four_legs_good said in #1:

@Raspberry_yoghurt said in #7:

Well, perverting an argument to make your opponents position easier to attack is know as the straw man argument (or fallacy). Raspberry-yogurt denies that what you said in #1 is a good representation of his argument. Therefore, your own original post is null and void.